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Vet ikke om han er den beste, men i hvert fall den mest disinkte. Vanskelig å ikke gjenkjenne det særpreget han setter på banene sine. Har bare spilt på én, og den likte jeg ikke så godt.

Selv har jeg sansen for Desmond Muihead.

Brian Phillips...

Tom Morris

Det er selfølgelig naboen til verdens beste garasje arkitekt.

Masse folk på dette forumet som kan bedømme det!!!!

Av de nålevende, ser listen slik ut iflg. Golf Research Group som har laget vurdering basert på hvem som gir mest penger tilbake til investorene:
1. Tom Fazio
2. Robert Trent Jones II(jr.)
3. Pete Dye
4. Jack Nicklaus

Jeg har spilt på baner av samtlige og er ganske enig i denne rankingen.

Av de historiske velger jeg det Donald Ross, Alister McKenzie og Robert Trent Jones SR., som alle dannet grunnlaget for det moderne golf design.

Problemet med å vurdere Ross og MacKenzie er at de jobbet før 1950 og banene er redesignet og ombygget for å møte dagens krav f.eks. Pinehurst nr. 2 og Augusta National.

Subjectivt er Fazio og Robert Trent Jones II mine favoritter med sine naturharmoniske design og evnen til å lage banedesign, som er spillbare for alle typer golfere og samtidig utfordrende for de beste fra back tees.

Pasek,

The ranking you listed is a ranking based on money and how much return an investor can make back from housing/membership by using one of the above mentioned. It is not a ranking on the quality of the architect.

They are definitely the biggest in golf at the moment but they are not the best in the world at the moment.

That would have to go to architects like:

Tom Doak - Barnbougle Dunes, Pacific Dunes, Sebonac and Cape Kidnappers are just some of his masterpieces.

Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw - Sand Hills, Hidden Creek, Friars Head and Bandon Trails

David Kidd - Bandon Dunes, Queenwood

Kyle Phillips - Kingsbarns

Of the list you mentioned Pete Dye is the best by far. He changed golf course design from the boring cookie cutter design to something untraditional and challenging for the low handicap player, his wife Alice was also the first women architect in the ASGCA and a pioneer in using 'ladies tees' correctly.

Pinehurst 2 is still the same course it was many years ago just lengthened and the greens have been rebuilt to USGA but it is Ross design.

Augusta is NOTHING like the way MacKenzie designed it anymore.

I find it curious that you say 'naturharmoniske' in regards Tom Fazio and somewhat RTJ2 as both architect companies move a hell of a lot of earth when they feel like it and I would say that their courses blend well into the existing landscape, they create their own landscape. I am not dissagreeing with it but it is not what I would call minimalist design.

They do create beautiful golf courses and that is what most clients want.

kokkos,

I assume you are being sarcastic.... ;-)

I however do feel that Graeme Webster and myself do produce work as good as if not better than anyone in Europe (considering the budgets we have). Hopefully Egersund will be proof of that as well as our redesign of two greens at Stavanger.

Brian

Og takk for det Brian med hilsen fra Kvinesdal

Brian, did you ever play any of the courses in Bandon? Pacific Dunes, Bandon Dunes or Bandon Trails. I never got to see the Bandon Trails course, as I moved back to Norway from the US before it was finished. I hear it is just beautilful, though...

I agree with Tom Doak being a great architect, by the way. Pacific Dunes must be one of the best courses in the world.

Når Bjaavann ved Kristiansand åpner 18 hull 24 juni vil det ikke være tvil om at Trent Jones er i toppen - Kjempebane!!

er Brian hjernen bak banen i kvinedsdal så SMASK til ham.

NIC,

I had very little to do with Kvinesdal and it was 99.5% Graeme. I only made one visit to the site as I was studying in Scotland the year it was built.

I am involved with the new driving range and the fantastic little short course that is getting built now though.

www.kvgk.no

Fugle jeger,

I agree that Bjaavann is going to be a good course....it should be at the price it has cost to build it...;-)

At least we know that Hole 2 the par 3 will always be Graeme's design...it wasn't on the first routing to RTJ2 but was put in after Graeme lost the design competition...

One thing I do know is that if Graeme had won the design competition all those years ago the club would not have gone bankrupt. He had a great deal with Veidekke (priced by myelf when I worked there and Ragnar Aune) for under 40 million.

Being an architect isn't just about your design it is about building the best course with as little use of the money as possible. An architect must not put his ego before the budget. That is something people like ourselves and many architects in Scandinavia and Europe get very little credit for.

There are many projects where we want shift earth or blast but just can't because the money just isn't there. All of you should think about that before critisising an architect, find out what the budget was, who was allowed to build, were golf shapers involved or was local contractors...all of these things make a big difference.

I do not know of one Graeme Webster or Jeremy Turner golf courses that have gone bankrupt here in Norway....

Brian

704,

I have not played anyof Tom's courses but Pacific Dunes is in the top 100 of the best golf courses in the world at the moment.

I have however played Sand Hills which is ranked even higher by Coore and Crenshaw. One of the greatest courses ever built.

Brian

Velkommen til alle golfere, Kvinesdal golfklubb er en super bane.

Brian,
Å rangere seg selv (best) i enhver anledning har ingen troverdighet så det må du slutte med. Ellers sa jeg at min rangering passet godt med inntjeningslisten listen jeg nevnte. Det er god grunn for dette. Dine kommentarer forøvrig om Pinehurst og Augusta bekrefter bare hva jeg mente.

Du har tydeligvis det klassiske og foreldete Britiske synet på golfbanedesign som er ganske minimalistisk og forutsetter at arealet bestemmer golfdesignet. Det bør ikke diskvalifisere designere som flytter mye masse. Det er det som gjør Fazio og RTJ så imponerende etter mitt syn at de klarer å forvandle kjedelig landskap til 'naturlige' golflandskap. Idag er det meget vanskelig å finne/få lov til å bygge på
sandbunn med egnet typografi.
Min favorittbane er forøvrig Robert Trent Jones jr.-designet Princeville GCC (Prince course) på Hawaii, som har vært rangert i 100 bestelisten til Golf Digest de siste 18 årene. Kyle Phillips er forøvrig av RTJ-skolen. Han flyttet foresten mye masse da han designet Kingsbarns....

Å rangere seg selv som best, er det ikke en miklagardings beste egenskap.

minus det

RT Jones, Nicklaus, Gary Player, Olazabal, Els, Brian Phillips, Harald Eia og resten utgjør lapskausen, designer fine gode baner, bevares, men skiller seg ikke ut.
De banene som har imponert meg mest, og som det har vært noe spesielt med, og som jeg drømmer om å dra tilbake til har vert designet av Pete Dye.
Dye er kremen på kaka, en mann som kan kunsten å heve seg over saueflokken.
Verdens mest berømte golfhull, øya på Sawgrass er designet av Dye.

Vedrørende Kvinesdal: Tor Eia utformet de første 9 hullene.
Arkitekt Graeme Webster overtok så de neste 9 etter en priskonkuranse og utformet de neste 9 samt en del tilpassninger på de første 9. Arkitekt Graeme Webster er engasjert til å utforme ny korthullsbane og drivingrange som forøvrig er igangsatt.

Til fileten og lapskausen så er det vel det du presterer - man skal vel ikke være mye til arkitekt for å matche Harald Eia når det gjelder utforming av golfbaner.

Pasek,

If a person doesn't believe in himself then they may as well just stop being an architect. I do like the classic British designs, they are bread and butter of golf course design.

I am not saying it is wrong to move earth but it is wrong to imply that the architects you mentioned match their courses with nature because they don't. The lay their courses on the land not normally with the land.

I cannot find Princes on the Golf Digest list which is below and taken from the Golf Digest website today:

1. St. Andrews (Old) St. Andrews, Scotland
2. Royal Melbourne G.C. (Composite) Black Rock, Australia
3. Royal Portrush G.C. (Dunluce) Portrush, N. Ireland
4. Royal County Down G.C. Newcastle, N. Ireland
5. Royal Dornoch G.C. (Championship) Dornoch, Scotland
6. Muirfield Gullane, Scotland
7. Ballybunion G.C. (Old) Ballybunion, Ireland
8. New South Wales G.C. Sydney, Australia
9. National G.C. Woodbridge, Canada
10. St. George's G. & C.C. Islington, Canada
11. Turnberry (Ailsa) Turnberry, Scotland
12. Carnoustie G.C. (Championship) Carnoustie, Scotland
13. Kingston Heath G.C. Melbourne, Australia
14. Hamilton G. & C.C. Ancaster, Canada
15. Royal Porthcawl G.C. Porthcawl, Wales
16. Royal St. George's G.C. Sandwich, England
17. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog) La Romana, Dominican Republic
18. Sunningdale G.C. (Old) Sunningdale, England
19. Beacon Hall G.C. Aurora, Canada
20. Kingsbarns G. Links St. Andrews, Scotland
21. Loch Lomond G.C. Luss, Scotland
22. Highlands Links Cape Breton, Canada
23. Swinley Forest G.C. Ascot, England
24. Hirono G.C. Hyogo, Japan
25. Leopard Creek G. Estate & C.C. Malelane, South Africa
26. Royal Birkdale G.C. Southport, England
27. Lahinch G.C. (Old) Lahinch, Ireland
28. Golf de Morfontaine Morfontaine, France
29. Gary Player C.C. Sun City, S. Africa
30. Portmarnock G.C. (Old) Portmarnock, Ireland
31. Royal Westmoreland G. & C.C. St. James, Barbados
32. Royal Adelaide G.C. Adelaide, Australia
33. Le Golf National (L'Albatros) Guyancourt, France
34. Royal Troon G.C. (Old) Troon, Scotland
35. The National G.C. (Moonah) Cape Schanck, Australia
36. Royal Lytham and St. Annes G.C. Lytham St. Annes, England
37. Cruden Bay G.C. Cruden Bay, Scotland
38. San Lorenzo G.C. Almancil, Algarve, Portugal
39. Macrihanish G.C. Campbeltown, Scotland
40. Tokyo G.C. Saitama, Japan
41. Woodhall Spa G.C. (Hotchkin) Woodhall Spa, England
42. Ganton G.C. Ganton, England
43. Les Bordes Beaugency, France
44. Kasumigaseki C.C. (East) Saitama, Japan
45. Mid Ocean Club Tucker's Town, Bermuda
46. Redtail G. Cse. Port Stanley, Canada
47. Cape Kidnappers G.C. Hawke's Bay, New Zealand
48. Domaine Imperial G.C. Gland, Switzerland
49. Barnbougle Dunes G. Links Bridport, Tasmania, Australia
50. Taman Dayu G.C. Pasuruan, Indonesia
51. Spring City G. & Lake Resort (Lake) Kunming, China
52. Spring City G. & Lake Resort (Mountain) Kunming, China
53. Playa Dorada G. Cse. Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic
54. Wairakei International G. Cse. Taupo, New Zealand
55. Santa Elena G.C. (RTJ2) Cabuyao, Laguna, Philippines
56. Capilano G.C. West Vancouver, Canada
57. Russley G.C. Christchurch, New Zealand
58. Puerto Azul G.C. Ternate, Cavite, Philippines
59. The Links at Fancourt George, South Africa
60. Paraparaumu Beach G.C. Paraparaumu Beach, New Zealand
61. The European Club Brittas Bay, Ireland
62. Durban C.C. Durban, South Africa
63. Cabo del Sol G.C. (Ocean) Los Cabos, Mexico
64. G.C. de Barbaroux Brignoles, France
65. Western Gailes G.C. Irvine, Scotland
66. Metropolitan G.C. Melbourne, Australia
67. Royal St. David's G.C. Harlech, Wales
68. The Lakes G.C. Sydney, Australia
69. Saujana G. & C.C. (Bunga Raya) Selangor, Malaysia
70. The Mines Resort & G.C. Selangor, Malaysia
71. Royal Montreal G.C. (Blue) Ile Bizard, Canada
72. Pinx G.D. Jeju Island, South Korea
73. Royal Liverpool G.C. Hoylake, England
74. Greywolf G.C. Panorama, Canada
75. Valderrama G.C. Sotogrande, Spain
76. The Gulf Harbour C.C. Whangaparaoa, New Zealand
77. Banff Springs G.C. (Stanley Thompson) Banff, Canada
78. Angus Glen G.C. (South) Markham, Canada
79. Lynx at Kingswood Park Fredericton, Canada
80. Aberdovey G.C. Aberdovey, Wales
81. Fox Harb'r G. Resort & Spa Wallace, Canada
82. Buenos Aires G.C. Bella Vista, Buenos Aires, Argentina
83. Shenzhen G.C. Shenzhen, China
84. Vilamoura G.C. (Old) Vilamoura, Portugal
85. Luisita G.C. Tarlac, Philippines
86. North Berwick G.C. North Berwick, Scotland
87. Kawana Hotel G.C. (Fiji) Shizuoka, Japan
88. Yalong Bay G.C. Hainan Island, China
89. Emirates G.C. (Majlis) Dubai, United Arab Emirates
90. Rye G.C. Rye, England
91. Sotogrande G.C. Sotogrande, Spain
92. Waterville G. Links Waterville, Ireland
93. Kauri Cliffs G.C. & Lodge Northland, New Zealand
94. Olivos G.C. Buenos Aires, Argentina
95. Wentworth G.C. (West) Virginia Water, England
96. Mission Hills G.C. (World Cup) Shenzhen, China
97. Jockey Club (Colorada) San Isidro, Buenos Aires, Argentina
98. St. Andrews (New) St. Andrews, Scotland
99. Golf de Fontainebleau Fontainebleau, France
100. Arabella Estate & G.C. Kleinmond, South Africa

That's probably because the list above does not include US golf courses, as far as I can see.

Here is the Top 100 for America where Princes course is number 63.


Yards Par Points
1. PINE VALLEY G.C. 6,853 70 74.04
Pine Valley, N.J.-- George Crump & H.S. Colt (1918)

2. AUGUSTA NATIONAL G.C. 7,290 72 73.14
Augusta, Ga.-- Alister Mackenzie & Bobby Jones (1933)

3. SHINNECOCK HILLS G.C. 6,821 70 72.42
Southampton, N.Y. -- William Flynn (1931)

4. CYPRESS POINT CLUB 6,509 72 71.30
Pebble Beach, Calif. -- Alister Mackenzie & Robert Hunter (1928)

5. OAKMONT C.C. 7,279 71 70.41
Oakmont, Pa. -- Henry Fownes (1903)

6. PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS 6,840 72 70.40
Pebble Beach, Calif.-- Jack Neville & Douglas Grant (1919)

7. MERION G.C. (East) 6,852 70 69.92
Ardmore, Pa. -- Hugh Wilson (1912)

8. WINGED FOOT G.C. (West) 7,229 72 68.87
Mamaroneck, N.Y. -- A.W. Tillinghast (1923)

9. NATIONAL G. LINKS OF AMERICA 6,876 73 68.14
Southampton, N.Y.—C.B. Macdonald (1911)

10. SEMINOLE G.C. 6,836 72 67.97
Juno Beach, Fla.—Donald Ross (1929)

11. CRYSTAL DOWNS C.C. 6,518 70 67.96
Frankfort, Mich.—Alister Mackenzie & Perry Maxwell (1931)

12. SAND HILLS G.C. 7,089 71 67.94
Mullen, Neb.—Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw (1994)

13. OAKLAND HILLS C.C. (South) 7,099 72 67.92
Bloomfield Hills, Mich.—Donald Ross (1918)/Robert T. Jones (1950)

14. PINEHURST RESORT & C.C. (No. 2) 7,274 72 67.60
Pinehurst, N.C.—Donald Ross (1935)

15. MEDINAH C.C. (No. 3) 7,580 72 67.58
Medinah, Ill.—Tom Bendelow (1928)

16. FISHERS ISLAND CLUB 6,566 72 67.34
Fishers Island, N.Y.—Seth Raynor & Charles Banks (1926)

17. WADE HAMPTON G.C. 7,154 72 64.38
Cashiers, N.C.—Tom Fazio (1987)

18. MUIRFIELD VILLAGE G.C. 7,269 72 67.16
Dublin, Ohio -- Jack Nicklaus & Desmond Muirhead (1974)

19. THE COUNTRY CLUB (Clyde/Squirrel) 6,577 71 67.15
Brookline, Mass.—Willie Campbell (1895)/Alex Campbell (1902)

20. SHADOW CREEK 7,239 72 67.03
North Las Vegas, Nev.—Tom Fazio (1990)


21. VICTORIA NATIONAL G.C. 7,239 72 66.99
Newburgh, Ind.—Tom Fazio (1998)

22. PACIFIC DUNES 6,633 71 66.76
Bandon, Ore.—Tom Doak (2001)

23. WHISTLING STRAITS (Straits) 7,362 72 66.55
Haven, Wis.—Pete Dye (1998)

24. PRAIRIE DUNES C.C. 6,708 70 66.32
Hutchinson, Kan.—Perry Maxwell (1937)/Press Maxwell (1957)

25. THE OLYMPIC CLUB (Lake) 6,850 71 66.31
San Francisco—Sam Whiting (1928)

26. SOUTHERN HILLS C.C. 7,085 71 66.28
Tulsa, Okla.—Perry Maxwell (1936)

27. OAK HILL C.C. (East) 7,145 71 66.08
Rochester, N.Y.—Donald Ross (1925)

28. BANDON DUNES 7,326 72 66.07
Bandon, Ore.—David McLay Kidd (1999)

29. BETHPAGE STATE PARK (Black) 7,299 71 66.00
Farmingdale, N.Y.—Joseph H. Burbeck & A.W. Tillinghast (1936)

30. QUAKER RIDGE G.C. 6,835 70 65.87
Scarsdale, N.Y.—A.W. Tillinghast (1926)

31. SAN FRANCISCO G.C. 6,754 71 65.77
San Francisco—A.W. Tillinghast (1918)

32. THE HONORS COURSE 7,215 72 65.72
Ooltewah, Tenn.—Pete Dye (1983)

33. KINLOCH G.C. 7,168 72 65.66
Manakin-Sabot, Va.—Lester George & Vinny Giles (2001)

34. WINGED FOOT G.C. (East) 6,750 72 65.50
Mamaroneck, N.Y.—A.W. Tillinghast (1923)

35. BUTLER NATIONAL G.C. 7,434 71 65.42
Oak Brook, Ill.—George Fazio & Tom Fazio (1974)

36. OLYMPIA FIELDS C.C. (North) 7,205 71 65.41
Olympia Fields, Ill.—Willie Park Jr. (1922)

37. LOS ANGELES C.C. (North) 6,909 71 65.35
Los Angeles—George C. Thomas Jr. (1921)

38. THE OCEAN COURSE 7,356 72 65.35
Kiawah Island, S.C.—Pete Dye (1991)

39. CHICAGO G.C. 6,710 70 65.09
Wheaton, Ill.—C.B. Macdonald (1894)/Seth Raynor (1923)

40. BALTUSROL G.C. (Lower) 7,400 72 64.95
Springfield, N.J.—A.W. Tillinghast (1922)

41. INVERNESS CLUB 7,255 71 64.94
Toledo, Ohio—Donald Ross (1919)

42. SOMERSET HILLS C.C. 6,659 71 64.68
Bernardsville, N.J.—A.W. Tillinghast (1918)

43. FLINT HILLS NATIONAL G.C. 6,946 71 64.54
Andover, Kan.—Tom Fazio (1997)

44. INTERLACHEN C.C. 6,829 73 64.53
Edina, Minn.—Willie Watson (1911)

45. RICH HARVEST LINKS 7,601 72 64.48
Sugar Grove, Ill.—Jerry Rich & Greg Martin (1999)

46. GARDEN CITY G.C. 6,911 73 64.44
Garden City, N.Y.—Devereux Emmet (1899)

47. RIVIERA C.C. 7,013 71 64.36
Pacific Palisades, Calif.—George C. Thomas Jr. & W.P. Bell (1926)

48. MILWAUKEE C.C. 6,928 72 64.34
River Hills, Wis.—H.S. Colt & C.H. Alison (1929)

49. SHOAL CREEK 7,114 72 64.25
Shoal Creek, Ala.—Jack Nicklaus (1977)

50. CASTLE PINES G.C. 7,619 72 64.18
Castle Rock, Colo.—Jack Nicklaus (1981)

51. THE GOLF CLUB 7,268 72 64.15
New Albany, Ohio—Pete Dye (1967)

52. SAND RIDGE G.C. 7,127 72 64.12
Chardon, Ohio—Tom Fazio (1998)

53. SPYGLASS HILL G. CSE. 6,862 72 64.08
Pebble Beach—Robert Trent Jones (1966)

54. THE QUARRY AT LA QUINTA 7,083 72 64.02
La Quinta, Calif.—Tom Fazio (1994)

55. FOREST HIGHLANDS G.C. (Canyon) 7,007 71 63.90
Flagstaff, Ariz.—Jay Morrish & Tom Weiskopf (1988)

56. ARCADIA BLUFFS G.C. 7,300 72 63.72
Arcadia, Mich.—Rick Smith & Warren Henderson (2000)

57. CAMARGO CLUB 6,636 70 63.71
Indian Hill, Ohio—Seth Raynor (1921)


58. CHERRY HILLS C.C. 7,160 72 63.70
Englewood, Colo.—William Flynn (1923)

59. SCIOTO C.C. 6,955 71 63.62
Columbus, Ohio—Donald Ross (1916)

60. KITTANSETT CLUB 6,782 70 63.41
Marion, Mass.—William Flynn & Frederic Hood (1922)


61. BLACKWOLF RUN (River) 6,991 72 63.37
Kohler, Wis.—Pete Dye (1990)

62. MAIDSTONE CLUB 6,403 72 63.34
East Hampton, N.Y.—Willie Park Jr. & Jack Park (1924)


63. THE PRINCE COURSE 7,309 72 63.33
Princeville, Kauai, Hawaii—Robert Trent Jones Jr. (1990)

64. PEACHTREE G.C. 7,043 72 63.28
Atlanta—Robert Trent Jones & Bobby Jones (1947)


65. DALLAS NATIONAL G.C. 7,326 72 63.22
Dallas—Tom Fazio (2002)

66. OCEAN FOREST G.C. 7,140 72 63.21
Sea Island, Ga.—Rees Jones (1995)


67. MAYACAMA G.C. 6,785 72 63.16
Santa Rosa, Calif.—Jack Nicklaus (2001)

68. DOUBLE EAGLE CLUB 7,140 72 63.10
Galena, Ohio—Jay Morrish & Tom Weiskopf (1992)


69. THE VALLEY CLUB OF MONTECITO 6,612 72 63.00
Santa Barbara, Calif.—Alister Mackenzie & Robert Hunter (1929)

70. VALHALLA G.C. 7,305 72 62.99
Louisville—Jack Nicklaus (1986)

71. LONG COVE CLUB 7,026 71 62.98
Hilton Head Island—Pete Dye (1981)

72. HAZELTINE NATIONAL G.C. 7,360 72 62.94
Chaska, Minn.—Robert Trent Jones (1962)


73. COLONIAL C.C. 7,080 70 62.92
Fort Worth—John Bredemus (1936)

74. CROOKED STICK G.C. 7,516 72 62.91
Carmel, Ind.—Pete Dye (1964)


75. THE HOMESTEAD (Cascades) 6,679 70 62.88
Hot Springs, Va.—William Flynn (1923)

76. THE ESTANCIA CLUB 7,146 72 62.86
Scottsdale—Tom Fazio (1995)


77. LAUREL VALLEY G.C. 7,399 72 62.82
Ligonier, Pa.—Dick Wilson (1960)

78. SAGE VALLEY G.C. 7,331 72 62.75
Graniteville, S.C.—Tom Fazio (2001)


79. EAST LAKE G.C. 7,267 72 62.72
Atlanta—Donald Ross (1915)/Rees Jones (1995)

80. SANCTUARY 7,033 72 62.68
Sedalia, Colo.—Jim Engh (1997)

81. HAWKS RIDGE G.C. 7,385 72 62.61
Ball Ground, Ga.—Bob Cupp (1999)

82. ARONIMINK G.C. 7,152 70 62.60
Newtown Square, Pa.—Donald Ross (1928)

83. THE PRESERVE G.C. 7,067 72 62.58
Carmel, Calif.—Tom Fazio, J. Michael Poellot & Sandy Tatum (2000)

84. TRUMP INTERNATIONAL G.C. 7,300 72 62.56
West Palm Beach—Jim Fazio (1999)

85. BLACK DIAMOND RANCH (Quarry) 7,159 72 62.55
Lecanto, Fla.—Tom Fazio (1988)

86. CANTERBURY G.C. 6,942 72 62.48
Beachwood, Ohio—Herbert Strong (1922)

87. GRANDFATHER G. & C.C. 7,030 72 62.40
Linville, N.C.—Ellis Maples (1968)

88. ATLANTIC G.C. 7,117 72 62.39
Bridgehampton, N.Y.—Rees Jones (1992)

89. CONGRESSIONAL C.C. (Blue) 7,250 72 62.36
Bethesda, Md.—Robert Trent Jones (1962)

90. HUDSON NATIONAL G.C. 6,955 70 62.30
Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y.—Tom Fazio (1996)


91. PETE DYE G.C. 7,248 72 62.28
Bridgeport, W.Va.—Pete Dye (1994)


92. GALLOWAY NATIONAL G.C. 6,901 71 62.27
Galloway, N.J.—Tom Fazio (1995)

93. SHOREACRES 6,521 71 62.26
Lake Bluff, Ill.—Seth Raynor (1921)


94. OLD WAVERLY G.C. 7,018 72 62.25
West Point, Miss.—Bob Cupp & Jerry Pate (1988)

95. PLAINFIELD C.C. 6,962 72 62.23
Plainfield, N.J.—Donald Ross (1921)


96. THE G.C. AT BRIAR’S CREEK 7,117 72 62.20
Johns Island, S.C.—Rees Jones (2001)

97. HARBOUR TOWN G. LINKS 6,973 71 62.04
Hilton Head Island—Pete Dye & Jack Nicklaus (1969)


98. TPC AT SAWGRASS (Stadium) 6,954 72 61.96
Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.—Pete Dye (1981)

99. SAHALEE C.C. (South/North) 7,003 72 61.94
Sammamish, Wash.—Ted Robinson (1969)

100. EUGENE C.C. 6,854 72 61.90
Eugene, Ore.—Robert Trent Jones (1967)

Here is Golf Magazines ranking which is probably the best ranking to look at in my opinion:

2005 Rank 2003 Rank Course Location Designer
1 1 Pine Valley Clementon, NJ Crump/Colt, 1918
2 2 Cypress Point Pebble Beach, CA Mackenzie, 1928
3 6 St. Andrews (Old Course) St. Andrews, Scotland 15th century
4 5 Augusta National Augusta, GA Mackenzie/Bobby Jones, 1932
5 4 Shinnecock Hills Southampton, NY Toomey/Flynn, 1931
6 7 Pebble Beach Pebble Beach, CA Neville/Grant, 1919; Egan
7 3 Muirfield Gullane, Scotland T. Morris, 1891; Colt, Simpson
8 11 Sand Hills Mullen, NE Coore/Crenshaw, 1995
9 10 Royal County Down Newcastle, Northern Ireland T. Morris, 1889; Dunn, Vardon
10 8 Royal Melbourne (Composite) Melbourne, Australia Mackenzie/Russell, 1926
11 14 Merion (East) Ardmore, PA H. Wilson, 1912
12 12 Royal Portrush (Dunluce) Portrush, Northern Ireland Colt, 1929
13 19 Pacific Dunes Bandon, OR Doak, 2001
14 15 Oakmont Oakmont, PA Fownes, 1903
15 16 Royal Dornoch Dornoch, Scotland T. Morris, 1886; Sutherland, Duncan
16 13 Ballybunion (Old) Ballybunion, Ireland Murphy, 1906; Simpson, Gourlay
17 17 Turnberry (Ailsa) Turnberry, Scotland P.M. Ross, 1906
18 9 Pinehurst (No. 2) Pinehurst, NC D. Ross, 1903-35
19 20 National Golf Links of America Southampton, NY Macdonald, 1911
20 21 Kingston Heath Cheltenham, Australia Soutar, 1925; Mackenzie
21 26 Carnoustie (Championship) Carnoustie, Scotland Robertson, 1842; Park, Braid
22 22 Seminole North Palm Beach, FL D. Ross, 1929; D. Wilson
23 24 Crystal Downs Frankfort, MI Mackenzie/Maxwell, 1929
24 27 San Francisco San Francisco, CA Tillinghast, 1915
25 23 Prairie Dunes Hutchinson, KS Maxwell, 1935-56
26 18 Winged Foot (West) Mamaroneck, NY Tillinghast, 1923
27 new Cape Kidnappers Hawk's Bay, New Zealand Doak, 2004
28 29 Fishers Island Fishers Island, NY Raynor, 1917
29 25 Oakland Hills (South) Bloomfield Hills, MI D. Ross, 1917; R.T. Jones Sr.
30 30 Bethpage (Black) Farmingdale, NY Tillinghast, 1936/Rees Jones,1998
31 28 Royal Birkdale Southport, England Lowe, 1889; Hawtree/Taylor
32 32 Royal St. George's Sandwich, England Purves, 1887; Mackenzie, Pennink
33 31 Chicago Wheaton, IL Macdonald, 1895; Raynor
34 43 New South Wales La Perouse, Australia Mackenzie, 1928
35 35 Hirono Kobe, Japan C. Alison, 1932
36 33 The Country Club (Championship) Brookline, MA Campbell, 1895; Flynn, Rees Jones
37 36 Riviera Pacific Palisades, CA Thomas/Bell,1926
38 37 Muirfield Village Dublin, OH Nicklaus/Muirhead, 1974
39 42 Oak Hill (East) Rochester, NY D. Ross, 1926; R.T. Jones Sr, G. & T. Fazio
40 38 Royal Troon (Old) Troon, Scotland Fernie, 1878; Braid
41 34 Casa de Campo (Teeth of Dog) La Romana, Dominican Republic P. Dye, 1971
42 45 Baltusrol (Lower) Springfield, NJ Tillinghast, 1922; R.T. Jones Sr.
43 40 Portmarnock Portmarnock, Ireland G. Ross/Pickeman, 1894; Hawtree
44 39 Olympic (Lake) San Francisco, CA Reid, 1917; Whiting, R.T. Jones Sr.
45 41 Southern Hills Tulsa, OK Maxwell, 1935
46 44 Sunningdale (Old) Sunningdale, England W. Park, 1901; Colt
47 46 Woodhall Spa Woodhall Spa, England Hotchkin/Hutchison, 1905
48 53 Whistling Straits (Straits) Haven, WI P. Dye, 1998
49 new Barnbougle Bridport, Tasmania, Australia Doak, 2004
50 57 TPC at Sawgrass (Stadium) Ponte Vedra Beach, FL P. Dye, 1981
51 59 Los Angeles (North) Los Angeles, CA Thomas, 1921
52 54 Royal Lytham & St. Annes Lytham St. Annes, England Lowe, 1886
53 48 The Golf Club New Albany, OH P. Dye, 1967
54 50 Royal Adelaide Adelaide, Australia Gardiner, 1904; Mackenzie
55 52 Medinah (No. 3) Medinah, IL Bendelow, 1928; Collis, Packard
56 79 Kiawah Island (Ocean) Kiawah Island, SC P. Dye, 1991
57 47 Morfontaine Senlis, France Simpson, 1927
58 49 Kauri Cliffs Kaeo, New Zealand D. Harmon, 2000
59 67 Harbour Town Hilton Head Island, SC P. Dye/Nicklaus, 1969
60 61 Quaker Ridge Scarsdale, NY Tillinghast, 1926; R.T. Jones Sr.
61 66 Winged Foot (East) Mamaroneck, NY Tillinghast, 1923
62 58 Inverness Toledo, OH D. Ross, 1919; G. & T. Fazio, Hills
63 60 Maidstone East Hampton, NY W. & J. Park, 1891; Tucker
64 55 Garden City Garden City, NY Emmet, 1898; Travis
65 65 Kingsbarns St. Andrews, Scotland K. Phillips, 1999
66 56 Loch Lomond Luss, Scotland Weiskopf/Morrish, 1994
67 73 Lahinch Lahinch, Ireland T. Morris, 1893; Gibson, Mackenzie
68 62 Ganton Ganton, England T. Dunn 1891; Colt, Cotton
69 74 Bandon Dunes Bandon, OR D. Kidd, 1999
70 77 Valderrama Sotogrande, Spain R.T. Jones Sr., 1975
71 64 Highlands Links Ingonish Beach, Nova Scotia Canada Thompson, 1935; Cooke
72 72 Royal Liverpool Hoylake, England G. Morris/Chambers, 1869; Pennink
73 68 Cabo del Sol (Ocean) Los Cabos, Mexico Nicklaus, 1994
74 new Friar's Head Baiting Hollow, NY Coore/Crenshaw, 2003
75 51 Shoreacres Lake Bluff, IL Raynor, 1919
76 71 Scioto Columbus, OH D. Ross, 1916; D. Wilson
77 69 Somerset Hills Bernardsville, NJ Tillinghast, 1917
78 76 Cruden Bay Cruden Bay, Scotland Fowler/Simpson, 1926
79 86 Congressional (Blue) Bethesda, MD Emmet, 1924; R.T. Jones Sr., Rees Jones
80 80 Kawana (Fuji) Kawana, Japan C. Alison/Fujita, 1936
81 70 Durban Durban, South Africa Waters/Waterman, 1922; Hotchkin
82 95 St. George's Etobicoke, Ontario Canada Thompson, 1929; Robinson
83 89 Shadow Creek North Las Vegas, NV T. Fazio/Wynn, 1989
84 new Hamilton Country Club (West/South) Ancaster, Ontario, Canada Colt, 1914; Rees Jones
85 78 Wentworth (West) Virginia Water, England Colt/Morrison, 1924
86 new Bandon Trails Bandon, OR Coore/Crenshaw, 2005
87 new Trump National Bedminster, NJ T. Fazio, 2004
88 81 Spyglass Hill Pebble Beach, CA R.T. Jones Sr., 1966
89 63 Camargo Cincinnati, OH Raynor, 1921
90 84 Ocean Forest Sea Island, GA Rees Jones, 1995
91 98 European Club Brittas Bay, Ireland Ruddy, 1992
92 82 Walton Heath (Old) Tadworth, England Fowler, 1904
93 97 East Lake Atlanta, GA Bendelow, 1910; D. Ross, Rees Jones
94 new Tokyo Golf Club Sayama-City, Japan Ohtani, 1940
95 new Nine Bridges Jeju Island, South Korea Fream, 2001
96 88 Wade Hampton Cashiers, NC T. Fazio, 1987
97 100 Colonial Fort Worth, TX Bredemus, 1935; Maxwell
98 87 Peachtree Atlanta, GA R.T. Jones Sr./Bobby Jones, 1948
99 94 Homestead (Cascades) Hot Springs, VA Flynn, 1923
100 75 Naruo Osaka, Japan Crane, 1904; C. Alison

I have played 15 of these including the top course Pine Valley.

Please take not how many courses Tom Doak and Coore & Crenshaw have in the TOP 100 of both lists. These guys were taught by Pete Dye who also has a number of great courses in the Top 100s.

Trent Jones jr. has only 1 course in the Top 100 of the two lists where they can be ranked and that is number 63 in the Top 100 of America. They have no Top 100 in the world rankings. Considering how many courses they design each year around the whole world, it is very surprising....

Within the circle of architects in the business Pete Dye is THE MAN! He is probably the greatest ever but he got the design business out of the doldrums of the 70's. He changed the face of architecture the same way that Doak, Coore & Crenshaw are doing now.

Brian.

Det hadde vel vært tilstrekkelig med en liten link til de aktuelle sidene, Brian

For all del, Pete Dye er en av de beste uten tvil og jeg vet at Coor&Crenshaw gjør fine baner, men jeg har ikke spilt noen av sistnevntes design. For meg er Pete Dye litt for ekstrem og lite 'naturharmonisk'. Sawgras skal forøvrig nå bygges om.
Preferanser er og blir oftest subjective når en vinner skal kåres og det er min også.
Dette har forøvrig vært en god diskusjon så langt og ser frem til flere innlegg.

Pasek,

I agree with you that it is a good thread.

In regards to your comment about TPC Sawgrass....Miklagard has been rebuilt a number of times already as well....

Most courses that are used for competition will need rebuilding due technology changes.

I also agree that Pete is extreme and probably is not in the top ten anymore but he did take it to the next level..that now Doak etc are taking on yet another level.

Brian.

Brian,
Sawgrass skal undergå en større ombygging etter krav fra pga-proene selv, mens Miklagard ikke var bygget skikkelig ferdig pga. grunn- og værforholdene på hull 1 og 16 noe founderne selv tok ansvar/betalte for slik jeg forstår det. Forresten, hva har det med denne diskusjonen å gjøre?
Vi får holde oss til tråden...og da vil jeg fortsette med det poenget at skal en golfbane i Norge bli økonomisk bærende, må golfbanen gi spilleglede for alle og ikke bare for de få med lavt handikapp. Jeg har ikke spilt Bjaavann som får mye skryt, mens Holtsmark 6 ferdig hull lover det aller beste etter jeg også fikk omvisning på de hullene som åpner til sommeren. Spillbarheten på banene til de mest kjente arkitektene er nettopp det som appelerer til meg ved siden av det estetiske og naturharmoniske, og det får meg til å foretrekke Fazio og Jones Jr.
Der ligger kanskje hemmeligheten til David M. Kidd's suksess
som har vært imponerende uten å ha et pro-navn å hjelpe seg med?

Pasek,

I have not been to see Holtsmark yet but Graeme had his finishers on the job last year so he visited the site. He said was a stunning site and will be one of the best courses in Scandinavia.

I know David pretty well. Although not a qualified architect (whatever that is..) he does have a great team working with him including Paul Kimber who is a great architect (qualified landscape architect) and one of my best friends Tommy Cushnahan (Agronomist and Masters in Golf Design with me).

I think one of the important differences is that the international architects have their own shapers or they have it the contract that qualified shapers must be used. Many small courses in Norway just cannot afford it or think on a short term basis...false economy.

There is just not enough work in Norway for me to employ my own shaper at the moment but if things take off this year in the countries that I am talking to at the moment then I will have to think about it.


Brian

To just reply to you about hole 1 at Miklagard...it was rebuilt because it was a poor golf hole....and still is not very good. It does not matter who paid for the rebuild it still was done.

My favourite hole at Miklagard is hole 2 which many seem to dislike but I love the strategy on that hole.

Brian

Det er nok det som er planen med hull 1 - en skikkelig nedtur før oppturen på hull 2 kommer så burde det jo bare vært en vei opp helt til hull 18 men det er vel ikke helt riktig ---

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

Må ikke kritisere Miklagard (eller Holtsmark) for da kommer øvrigheita og stopper ytringsfriheten.
Men enig med Brian, junior Robert TJ utmerker seg ikke borsett fra på nevnte baner der han er verdens beste.
Fint at Pasek sovna, så slipper han poste flere kommentarer.

Ingenting slår de beste og tradisjonelle skotske links-banene; Cruden Bay, Royal Aberdeen, Murcar, Crail (Balcomie Links), Old Course, New Course, Royal Dornoch, North Berwick, Royal Troon, Prestwick osv. Felles for dem er at det enten var Old Tom Morris eller James Braid som la dem ut. I vår tid er Trent Jones Sr. en stor arkitekt, det samme kan sies om junior, for ikke å snakke om Pete Dye. Men hva med en banearkitekt som spanske Javier Arana? Man trenger bare å ha spilt El Saler i Valencia en eneste gang for å forstå hans genialitet.

Miklagard - en gammel kornåker, som de gamle fra øvrigheta spiller på av gammel vane.

De har ikke sett snadderbaner og forsvarer den uten å ha trillet gåstolen til de flotte banene.

Children of the popcorn, slapp nå av.
Greit at Miklagard hører med til "se så god jeg er"-gjengen, men det er likevel en veldig bra bane.
Heller Miklagard enn alle disse lurvete skabbete links-banen på køla-holmen. Har du spilt to av dem er det ikke så veldig mye nytt som dukker opp. Rotete, nakent, anonynmt, falmet, kjedelig og megamonotont.
Har ikke oppdaget det fantastiske med St. Andrews, annet enn et hypersnobbete grått klubbhus og stygge omgivelser. Og definitivt no value for greenfee.....

Hva med Holtsmark. Spill golf og plukk jordbær samtidig. Må jo være en uslåelig kombinasjon !

at det ikke er voldsomt naturskjønt på St. Andrews Old Course kan da vel ikke være grunnlag for å si at linksbaner er skabbete generellt.
det finnes superflotte linksbaner, som for eksempel Kingsbarns, som er noe av det flotteste jeg har sett innen golfbaner i hvertfall.
At Children of the corn mener at MG er gammel kornåker som gamlinger spiller på sier mer om holdningene hans enn om Miklagard gudsjelov.
Typisk å hetse spillere som liker Miklagard uten å kjenne noen av de. kjipt angrep Cotc.....

There is only one type of real golf and that is links golf, everything else is just a copy.

With regards to Miklagard, can anyone name a course that is technically better than Miklagard? I cannot think of one at the moment. It is not the the best allround course in Norway but it is definitely the best 'golfers' course.

Brian

There is only one type of real car, and thats T-Ford, everything else is a copy.
And of course XC-skiing should never be skating and skijumping should never be V-style. F! cars should be without electronics and women should never wear trousers.
And last but not least, there is only one type of golf-architects and that's old Tom Morrison, everybody else are clones. But tom is dead and the T-Fords are out of production and skiing is more efficient and women can wear what they want and I'm tired of links so thank God there are copies improving the original design.